A Daughter’s Perspective: Jewher Ilham

Jewher, I read your book, and it was amazing. It was perfect to read. 

Thanks for getting one!

Can you talk about a specific challenge you faced in raising awareness about your father's case and the broader issues affecting the Uyghur community?

Even today, it’s the constant denial from people who have never met a Uyghur person before, but who have been on Tiktok or seen Chinese propaganda, and believe whatever they see.

That really hurts. Recently, there's this guy on YouTube, a pro-China, pro-Russia guy who's constantly spreading Chinese and Russian propaganda. He’s very rich. He draws in viewers with private jets and his lavish lifestyle. But then he's spreading hate, and labeling victims and survivors as liars and CIA agents. I could literally debunk every single point he's made. I wish I was more social media savvy or tech savvy, just to do a video response to him. 

Extremely disrespectful. What do you think the international community's responsibility is for supporting Uyghurs in order for them to gain human rights and ultimately freedom? 

We, as human beings, have the responsibility to care about each other. It makes me think of that famous poem; “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak up because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. They came from me, and there was no one left to speak for me.”

Yes, that is a really powerful piece. I saw that at the Holocaust Museum on the wall. 

All human beings should share the same fundamental rights. One particular religious or ethnic group doesn't make us less or more than anyone, no matter what god we believe in. I believe we all were created by the same creator, and there's this ultimate power that we're all children of. And I think what makes us different from animals is that we have humanity, and we have the ability to practice that humanitarian side to the fullest. 

Yeah, that's very beautiful. Thank you. What role do you see technology and social media playing in amplifying voices of oppressed communities like the Uyghurs, or doing the opposite and spreading lies? 

What is it called, the double sided dagger? Basically, it has its pros and cons. The impacted groups can use social media to amplify their cause and raise awareness. However, there is so much misinformation on the internet, and it's hard for people to distinguish what is the truth and what is false. It's really important for us to do our due diligence and do our research. It's okay if we have too much information, that's better than having no information. The problem is people get a glimpse of a tiny bit of sensationalist content, and they think that's it, that's all they needed to know, that's the ultimate truth, and, instead of it triggering their curiosity to dig into more, it triggers their reactivity. That's a very dangerous thing. 

For me, when I look at social media and see a piece of evidence even straight out of a survivor's mouth, even though there's a high possibility that it is true, I do not believe it before I verify it. I do not spread it or share it before I verify the source of it, because I would like to be able to spread what I believe is actually true, and not contribute to the false information that's floating around everywhere. 

Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so in your book you briefly mentioned your interactions with Chinese Americans. Could you speak about that a little bit more?

You have to separate those feelings, because, you know, it's the government, it's not them. 

I was speaking to a Uyghur man in DC who owns a restaurant. I asked him the same question, but I know it's hard to separate those feelings because it is the Chinese government who are at fault. How do you not let those feelings interfere with your connections with Chinese Americans?

First of all, I believe the Chinese people are the victims of repression as well. Just as when you're talking about Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi government oppressing journalists, freedom of expression, and feminist groups, that doesn’t mean the Saudi people, Saudi Arabians, are also complicit. They're the victims of that as well. It’s the same thing with the Chinese people. 

Oftentimes, they're not only the victims of limited freedom of expression, but also they themselves are suffering from not having access to information as well. China is one of only four countries in the world that ban social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. They even ban Google. You'd be surprised, because China is such a huge country and is so economically developed, but people there  have very little idea of what's going on around the world, besides the very limited information they're given from the Chinese state-owned, state-run media. 

There's only one type of information you can get. They call it CCTV, which is a Chinese news outlet. Other than that, you have to download a VPN to cross the firewall, and in doing so, put yourself at risk of being arrested. So you don't have an alternative angle of any given incident. You only have what the Chinese government thinks. People get arrested for looking at a newsletter or Twitter or downloading something that they’re not allowed to have. Especially if they utilize the information that they obtained. Oftentimes, if you’re Han Chinese, you will get a warning. But if you're part of an ethnic group, a minority group, you will be inciting the power of the Chinese Communist Party. If you criticize the Chinese government in the slightest, you're considered to have committed espionage. So it's pretty insane. 

That's actually crazy. 

Don't go to China, until they get rid of all that. 

Can you tell me about any positive moments of hope that you experienced during your advocacy work?

Always, like the moment I'm having with you right now. All of those moments are very precious for me, every individual that reached out to me wanting to learn a little bit more about the Uyghur people. I am a very optimistic person, but I'm also a very realistic person. So I'm an optimistic realist. I do believe things will get better and I do believe my people will gain their freedom one day. 

However, I am realistic, so I know it's not going to happen very soon or with just my campaigns. It’s going to take so many more people. But that's why it gives me hope. Whenever I talk to people, whether they're elementary school students or high school students ,or PhD researchers, professors, or government officials, whenever someone spares a slight interest or curiosity into who the Uyghurs are and what happened to us, it gives me hope. That means our forces are stronger now. 

Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so this is a tough question. How do you balance raising awareness about human rights abuses and also try to ensure the safety of yourself? 

I think living in the west means there's a very small chance the Chinese government can physically do any harm to me, in an obvious way, because that would mean they sent foreign agents to this country, and they're committing serious crime, and it could incite war. In terms of digital security, that's something that I can actively gain the skills I need to keep myself safe. I have several devices, and I have very complicated passwords for every account, and that's a basic thing; you know, like, don't use your birthday, don't use your anniversary, don't use your parents’ birthdays.

I know you're a very optimistic person, and I can tell you're also very realistic; with that in mind, what are your next steps, or hopes, in order to achieve your goals? 

In the US, we just passed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act and the EU just passed the CS Triple D Resolution and also Forced Labor Resolution. Although it doesn't have a regional focus, it's still better than not having a forced labor law. My goal is to have more countries around the world pass import bans and forced labor legislations that can ban products that are made with forced labor, especially from the Uyghur region. I believe that the way to liberate Uyghur people from such atrocities is to make the Chinese government no longer able to profit off it. 

Therefore, I want to focus on the forced labor aspect of it. If it's going to cost the Chinese government more money to lock people up, to run those detention facilities. Eventually they will have to let go of people because they don't want to burn money. For them to lose money from those immoral practices, from those detention facilities, is to let factories no longer be able to take any orders internationally. The domestic orders will have to go to Chinese workers who chose to work in a factory, not forced labor. 

So do you know which countries, other than in the EU, have responded in a way that could help?

The UN created the Working Group on Business and Human Rights, and Canada is currently working on it. They're in touch with the US CBP to exchange information on how the law has been implemented here, and they have already introduced budgets just to do anti-forced labor work. So that's good news, although we don't know the timeline yet. Hopefully that's going to be implemented soon. 

I haven't heard anything about the Uyghur Forced Labor Protection Act not working, or working. All I know is that we implemented it. And then it was like, that was it? Do you think it is having an impact? 

So if you look up the UFLPA dashboard on Google, you'll be able to see how it has been working; the specific data. Every day it is updated, and so far, over 7000 shipments and several billion dollars worth of product have been targeted. It does lack some detail. For example, you cannot see how many shipments were detained in Vietnam, or for which industry. Ideally, it would be nice to be able to see that, but providing that level of breakdown would create a lot of work for them, and there’s only like 30 people to work on this massive database. They're trying to hire more people. 

How can everyday people like me, regardless of backgrounds or locations, make an actual, tangible difference in the Uyghur crisis and advocate for justice on a global scale? 

Firstly, people need to learn what's happening. After they gain the knowledge, they need to spread it; tell everyone, from your classmates to your teachers. Ask your advisor or professor to add it to their syllabus. And then, circling back to the forced labor issue, we need there to be no orders coming into those factories in China. How do we make companies stop placing orders that are fulfilled in those forced labor camps? Well, as consumers, we can demand companies to stop sourcing from forced labor factories. We can pressure them in different ways, from choosing where we spend our money, to consumer campaigns. Ultimately, companies want to make their customers spend money, right? So if, if what they're buying and what they're making no longer makes their consumers spend money, they will be forced to shift their operations.

The US is China's strongest economic partner, so we really have the power to make a difference. There are also so many international brands – even if they're not the US – brands like H&M, Zara, Nike, and Apple. They all operate in China, the US, and the EU. We have power here. China represents 5% of China H&M sales, and 19% of Nike’s. It sounds like not a lot, but it's billions of dollars. So for them, it's gonna be like a tremendous loss if consumers here also try to pressure them. One more easy thing is to ask questions about the products around you. For example, in universities or sports stores, when you see the Indiana or the Ohio shirts, caps, and mascots, ask where they are made. Most are not made locally in the US. They come from China. So ask, where are they sourced? How are they made? Those are the answers that we need. 

Purchase Jewher's book, Because I Have To, here.